Interesting email on the Kipp-Grubb family

 An interesting email on the Kipp family of New Amsterdam relating back to Catherine Rosina Kipp b 1707 and daughter of Abraham Kipp b 1680 and his wife Agnet. A second Kip link is mentioned Elizabeth baptized 1718 at Hackensack NJ daughter of Hendrik Kip b 1693 and Geertje Van Dien b 1697. This second Elizabeth Kip does appear in the Kip family tree which my husband has put on line as the Kip-America tree and she was the daughter of Hendrick Kip and Geertruy Van Dien who married 24 Jul 1714 at Hackensack, Bergen Co, NJ. Elizabeth married John A Hopper 9 Apr 1736 at Hackensack. I shall have a look at the information and see what I am able to learn from it.

Kipp-Kip Newsletter Volume 1 Issue 3 2022

 The next issue of the Kipp-Kip Newsletter Volume 1 Issue 3 2022 is available on the website. The email has gone to FT DNA for their approval before distribution. The images are not yet included in the post below but the hypertext link has been posted in this newsletter. The newsletter on the FT DNA website contains all of the relevant images. 

The Kip-Kipp Family Newsletter

Table of Contents

1.      The Kip-Kipp Family Newsletter

2.      Edward Kipp, HBSc, PhD, MLS

3.      History of The Kip Family in America

4.      What do we know about Hendrick Hendricksen Kip the emigrant (Part 2 – 1643 -1685)?

5.      Letters to the Editor

6.      yDNA study at FT DNA on the Kip-Kipp Families

7.      Next Issue

 

1.      The Kip-Kipp Family Newsletter

The third issue of this newsletter and I feel a certain momentum as it evolves. I think what is helpful for me is that I do not have preconceived ideas about the Kip/Kipp family and can work directly from the information that Edward collected without any preconceived notions. I did assist him on occasion extracting information from film but followed a research pattern that he designed. His interest in Kipp grew exponentially as he discovered via his yDNA that he did descend from the Kip family of New Amsterdam/New York. That changed his focus somewhat and he left his investigation of the descendants of the various Kipp families in his local area to look at the overall Kip/Kipp family descendants in the 1700s and 1800s. Hence I do find that his trees for his lines in the present are not necessarily complete plus he did not trace down female lines in the present consistently – depended on his interest or whether he was trying to find something. Discussions with Kipp descendants in his area I was present at and did take notes in those early days as he was trying to find hints of the ancestral line thought to have lived in the 1700s/1600s in Dutchess County, New York. I have refrained from mentioning the Newsletter on line other than in his Kip/Kipp yDNA study as I do not want a lot of emails in the present trying to connect back to his line in Oxford/Burford Counties of Ontario. I do not intend to continue his research beyond what he has done but will leave that with my daughters in the future if it interests them.

2.      Edward Kipp, HBSc, PhD, MLS

Edward started to write his family story (after much prodding by me but only in the last couple of months before he passed away – I had been suggesting it since I had started writing my own back in 2012!). However, what he did share was an interesting look at a child who grew up in a household that included his mother and a brother eight years older. I would say that he gradually grew used to the idea of being fatherless but it was a painful experience and perhaps that memory of a father who cared for him 24/7 from the time he walked at ten months until his father passed away when he was two years and two months of age was there in his subconscious and it was very hard to let go. His mother commented to me when we were first married that he looked for him constantly as a small child and it did help somewhat when they moved to the house where he grew up away from the farm and all the familiar sights of those early years. He was about 2 and a half when they moved. He had five first cousins which must have been helpful for him as he grew up in the small village that had seen a Kipp family living there since the early 1800s.

 

 

Phyllis Margaret (Link) Kipp, Allen Charles Kipp, Edward Burnice Kipp and Lorne Bernice Kipp (circa 1945).

 

This picture of Edward as a toddler with his mother and older brother was found by him when he went through his mother’s hope chest shortly after he retired in 2004. She had passed away in 2000 but he had not opened the chest and gone through it before then. The picture itself had gotten caught on a piece of wood at the bottom of the chest and was upside down. I could hear the thrill in his voice as he called me to come and see the picture when I arrived home from work. It is the only picture of Edward with his father (and entire family for that matter). We scanned it and made several glossy new copies one of which was on his bulletin board above his desk. For him that was a pinnacle of his study to find that picture. Edward is wearing his baptismal suit so can probably be dated 22 Apr 1945 (his father was an Elder at Princeton United Church) when Edward was just two years of age. It is possible that it was earlier than that but the picture was undated although I recognized this as the little suit which we still have from his baptism.

3.      History of The Kip Family in America

https://wc.rootsweb.com/trees/133965/I1/hendrickhendricksen-kip/individual

This website on Roots Web is still accessible but the entire listing is also on the website which Edward created:

 

https://wc.rootsweb.com/

 

In World Connect, search the "jump to a specific database" field for edwkipp8

 

I need to decide if I should do more with the material in this earlier history. Should I publish parts of it? It is a mystery at the moment as the book is on Internet Archive but there are pictures in the book and presumably they are out of copyright since it was published in 1928 but will check on that.

 

Fortunately for the Kip Family in America an earlier researcher put together an extensive family genealogy book “History of The Kip Family in America” by Frederic Ellsworth Kip of Montclair, New Jersey and assisted by Margarita Lansing Hawley of Morristown, New Jersey and was published in 1928 at Boston by Hudson Printing Company. It is available on Internet Archive:

https://archive.org/stream/historyofkipfami00kipf_2/historyofkipfami00kipf_2_djvu.txt

4.      What do we know about Isaac Hendricksen Kip (2^nd son of Hendrick Hendricksen Kip) ?

First of all Isaac Hendricksen Kip was the second son of Hendrick Hendricksen Kip and Tryntje Lubberts. I have omitted the eldest son Abraham who was christened 6 May 1625 in Amsterdam, Noord-Holland, The Netherlands. No further information was found for Abraham and will leave that to another Kip researcher to solve as a mystery.

Isaac Hendricksen was baptized 10 Jan 1627 in Amsterdam, Noord-Holland, The Netherlands. His death is mentioned as Jul 1678 in New Harlem, New York City. He married Catalyntje Hendricks Snyers 8 Feb 1653 in New Amsterdam, New Netherlands (this area was still a Dutch Colony at the time of his marriage).

Edward’s notes for Isaac in Legacy Family Tree:

Isaack. He was baptized at the New Church, Amsterdam, Holland, on Jan 10, 1627, and came to the Dutch Colony of New Amsterdam with his parents. He was admitted to the Rights of a Great Burgher in New Amsterdam on April 11, 1657, but unlike his father and brothers did not enter upon a political career. The only office he held in New Amsterdam was that of stamper, to which he was appointed Feb. 20, 1674, and on Oct. 27, 1675 he was nominated for magistrate of New Harlem. He was a yacht Captain engaged in river trade between New Amsterdam and the settlements at Esopus (Kingston) and Fort Orange (Albany). His descendants settled in Rhinebeck.

Isaack Henrixsz, baptized January 10, 1627 in the Nieuwe Kerk in Amsterdam, Noord-Holland. Father Henrick Henrixsz. Mother Trijntje Lubberts. Sponsor is Jan Henrixsz, possibly a brother of Hendrick Hendricksz.  DTB 040p377. FHL Indexing project C90037-2. Film # 113144.

Sources:

1.      17th Century Hollanders

http://17thcenturyhollanders.pbworks.com/w/page/63040141/Hendrick%20Hendricksz%20Kip

This particular document has original documents of the marriage Isaack’s parents and a listing of the children which includes mention of Isaack.

2.      Contributions to the History of the Kip Family of New York and New Jersey, by Edwin R. Purple, 1877. This book can be found on Internet Archive.org:

https://archive.org/details/contributionstoh1877purp

The image below is taken from page 10 of this particular book.

 

3.      Historical Notes of the Family of Kip of Kipsburg and Kip's Bay, New York, by William  Ingraham Kip, 1871.

Page 10: “Isaac. He had large landed property in the city, including what now forms the Park. Nassau street was then called Kip street, in honor of him and is so laid down in the early maps (Jerome B Holgate, American Genealogy being a history of some of the early settlers and their descendants, from their first emigration to the present time with their intermarriages and collateral branches etc, 1851, p. 112). “ The New York Genealogical and Biographical Record, Volumes 7-8 on page 72 also has a writeup for Isaac Hendrickszen Kip. However mention is made that Nassau Street below Maiden Lane was named Kip Street as a compliment to Jacob Kip (brother of this Isaac). But the two publications do provide some interesting information that Nassau Street between now named Ann Street and Spruce Street “was originally called Kip Street after one of the family.”

4.      Continuing with William Ingraham Kip’s book: “In 1657, ‘in conformity to the laudable custom of the city of Amsterdam in Europe,’ the Great Burgher Right was introduced into New Amsterdam, by Gov. Stuyvesant. It was the selection of about twenty families who formed the Great Citizenship, the members of which alone were eligible to the public offices, while the rest of the citizens were in the Small Citizenship. In the list of the Great Citizenship are found the names of Hendrick and Isaac Kip (J. Paulding,  Affairs and Men of New Amsterdam: in the time of Governor Peter Stuyvesant, p. 87). “ I did find it rather interesting that there is a Hendrick Kip, junior also mentioned establishing that Hendrick Hendricksen Kip (father of these two men) was still in New Amsterdam in 1657.

5.      History of The Kip Family In America, by Frederic E. Kip and Margarita L. Hawley, 1928.  No.2, p. 36, 39.

Page 36 of Frederic Kip’s book has recorded the baptism of Isaack as 10 Jan 1627 with his death in July 1678. Pages 39 to 43 of this same book include details on Isaac including his marriage to Catalyntje Hendrick Snyers and lists their seven children: Hendrick, Tryntie, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob (died young), Jacob and Johannes.

This book is available on Internet Archive:

https://archive.org/details/historyofkipfami00kipf_2/page/42/mode/2up

6.      Collections of the New York Genealogical and Biographical Society, Vol. 1.

Volume 1 includes Marriages in the Dutch Church, New York 11 Dec 1639 to 26 Aug 1801.  Records of the Reformed Dutch Church in New Amsterdam and New York. The Marriages from 11 December 1639 to 26 August 1801, edited by Samuel S. Purple, MD, New York, 1890. p. 18.  Feb. 8 1653.  Isaac Hendrickszen Kip, en Catalyntje Hendricks Snyers.

7.      The Register of New Netherland 1626 to 1674. By E.B. O'Callaghan. Clearfield Co., Baltimore, MD. 1995.

Page 174 of this particular book prepared by Edmund B. O’Callaghan is a list of the Great Burghers named in 1657 with Hendrick Kip and Isack Kip named on the 11^th of April and Hendrick Kip, junior named on the 17^th of April in the year first mentioned.

8.      Calendar of Dutch Historical Manuscripts in the Office of the Secretary of State Albany, New York 1630-1664, by Edmund B. O'Callaghan, The Gregg Press, Ridgewood, NJ, 1968.

9.      P. 382. Land Papers, Vol. H.H., p. 56. June 21, 1656. Patent. Isaac Kip; lot in the Sheep pasture, New Amsterdam.

10.  American Family Antiquity. Being an account of the origin and progress of American  families, traced from their progenitors in this country, connected with their history abroad. Illustrated with portraits and emblazoned coats armorial. Vol. II. KIP. Albert  Welles. American College for Genealogical Registry and Heraldry. New York. 1881. New York Public Library.

An interesting discussion about this set of books by Albert Welles on a WikiTree page describes his works as being fraudulent. Welles had a particular interest in coats of arms and heraldry but was apparently notorious for fabricating aristocratic pedigrees. Although these can not be supported by evidence the article goes on to say that they should be consulted to ascertain and document the origins of pedigrees and other genealogical details in order to ensure they are discarded as being fraudulent. This would appear to be the source of the information in Frederic Ellsworth Kip’s book on the Kip Family of America. The book is available in electronic form at: https://archive.org/details/americanfamilyan00well/page/n29/mode/2up

11.  Descendants of Isaac Hendricksen Kip and Catalyntje Hendricks Snyers 1^st generation)

Family Group Record for Isaac Hendricksen Kip

 

=================================================================

Husband: Isaac Hendricksen Kip

=================================================================

          Born: Jan 1627 - Amsterdam, Noord-Holland, Netherlands

    Christened: Jan 10, 1627 - Amsterdam, Noord-Holland, Netherlands

          Died: Jul 1678 - New Harlem, NY

        Buried:

        Father: Hendrick Hendricksen Kip (Cir 1600-1685)

        Mother: Tryntje Lubberts (Cir 1599-After 1665)

      Marriage: Feb 8, 1653                     Place: New Amsterdam, New

                 Netherland

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

  Other Spouse: Maria Vermilye (1629-          )  Date: Sep 26, 1675 - New

                 Harlem, NY

=================================================================

   Wife: Catalyntje Hendricks Snyers

=================================================================

          Born: Abt 1632 - New Amsterdam, New Netherland

    Christened:

          Died: Bef Sep 26, 1675 - New Harlem, NY

        Buried:

        Father: Hendrick Janszen Snyder (Abt 1604-1647)

        Mother: Geertje Scheerburch (Abt 1608-          )

=================================================================

Children

=================================================================

1  M  Hendrick Kip

          Born: 1654 - New Amsterdam, New Netherland

    Christened: Feb 8, 1654 - New Amsterdam, New Netherland

          Died: 1713

        Buried:

        Spouse: Annetje Jans Van Putten (1659-1732)

    Marr. Date: Bef 1678

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

2  F  Tryntie Kip

          Born: Sep 1656 - New Amsterdam, New Netherland

    Christened: Sep 13, 1656 - New Amsterdam, New Netherland

          Died: Aug 28, 1727

        Buried:

        Spouse: Philip De Foreest (1652-1727)

    Marr. Date: Jan 5, 1676 - New Amsterdam, New Netherland

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

3  M  Abraham Kip

          Born: Aug 1659 - New Amsterdam, New Netherland

    Christened: Sep 3, 1659 - New Amsterdam, New Netherland

          Died: Jun 1731 - Albany, NY

        Buried: Jun 28, 1731 - Reformed Dutch Church Cem., Albany, Albany Co.,

                 NY

        Spouse: Gessie Van der Heyden (Cir 1667-1748)

    Marr. Date: Oct 16, 1687 - Albany, NY, USA

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

4  M  Isaac Kip

          Born: Jun 1662 - New Amsterdam, New Netherland

    Christened: Jun 15, 1662 - New Amsterdam, New Netherland

          Died: Apr 8, 1750 - New York, NY

        Buried:

        Spouse: Sarah De Mill (1663-1727)

    Marr. Date: Oct 20, 1686

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

5  M  Jacob Kip

          Born: Nov 1664 - New York, USA

    Christened: Nov 19, 1664 - New York, USA

          Died: Beg 1666 - New York, USA

        Buried:

        Spouse:

    Marr. Date:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

6  M  Jacob Kip

          Born: Aug 25, 1666 - New York, NY

    Christened: Aug 29, 1666 - New York, NY

          Died: Feb 28, 1733 - Kingston, Ulster Co., NY

        Buried:

        Spouse: Rachel Swartwout (1669-1746)

    Marr. Date: 1695 - Albany, NY, USA

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

7  M  Johannes Kip

          Born: Jan 1669 - New York, NY

    Christened: Jan 20, 1669 - New York, NY

          Died:

        Buried:

        Spouse:

    Marr. Date:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

=================================================================

12.  The y-DNA matches tend to support the possibility that Edward’s 2x great grandfather Isaac Kipp (born 1 Nov 1764 in New York State) was a descendant of Isaac Hendricksen Kip. His 2x great grandfather can be found on the 1790 census living next door or with Jonathan Mead. Isaac was married to Hannah Mead 29 Aug 1790 (all records according to Richard Kipp’s Family Bible).

With Isaac Kipp on this census is his wife Hannah (under the column Free White Female). Their eldest son Isaac was born in 1790/91 according to the census of 1800. The family members listed with Jonathan Mead (three males under 16 and four females) does lend support to the argument that this was Jonathan Mead (the Cooper III). Jonathan Mead and his wife (thought to be Sarah Thompson) had ten children with Hannah being the sixth born (11^th Aug 1770). But this continues a work in progress although not being pursued by the editor. Of note, the first census in the United States (1790) took place beginning 2^nd Aug 1790. On the basis of that, it is perhaps not presumptive to assume that Hannah was the daughter of this Jonathan Mead and the census taker could not resolve the idea that one was supposed to resolve the data to the 2^nd of August when Isaac and Hannah married the 29^th of August and just found it easier to record them together as he would likely have found them when the census was actually taken (perhaps after the marriage had occurred). But it is an interesting thought to explain the discrepancy.  The birth records and marriage records have not been located by my husband in spite of many visits to Northeast Town area. These records were in the Family Bible of one of the sons of Isaac and Hannah – Richard Titus Kipp. The census of 1800 taken at Rensselaerville NY shows the Kipp family (Isaac, Hannah and four children) on their way to southwestern Ontario where they arrived in the Fall of 1800. This census shows Isaac Kipp with three sons under 10 years of age, 1 son 10 to 16, and himself 26 to 45 and then his wife 26 to 45. At this time there were actually five sons with the second eldest (Jonathan b 1792) appearing to remain with his grandfather Jonathan Mead at Northeast Town. The other sons were Isaac (b 1790/91), James (b 1793), John (b 1795), and David (b 1797).

Census day was 4^th August 1800 which does leave one to think that likely Isaac was born in 1790 and one is left to wonder at the accuracy of the marriage date but I will leave that for another researcher. I myself saw the dates in the Richard Kipp Family Bible but they were written in the same hand as information at a later date. The material on the left hand side of the image below does appear to have been written in the same hand although whether it was at the same time is difficult to assume.

The marriage date was entered for Isaac Kipp and Hannah Mead possibly in 1830.

The next issue will look at another one of the sons of Hendrick Hendricksen Kip. This issue a little longer but decided to add in the census and Bible pages for Edward’s 2x great grandparents.

5.      Letters to the Editor

This section will be available to anyone wanting to write to the Editor.

6.      yDNA study at FT DNA on the Kip-Kipp Families

Project Statistics

Big Y     3
Distinct Y-DNA Confirmed haplogroups   6
Family Finder    21
Paternal Ancestor Information  24
Total Members  41
Unreturned kits   4
Y-DNA Deep Clade (after 2008)   3
Y-DNA Deep Clade (prior to 2008)  1
Y-DNA12     17
Y-DNA25     15
Y-DNA37     15
Y-DNA67     12
Y-DNA111     6

I may wait until I have results for Edward’s testing (I am still trying to decide which test to do) before commenting further on the yDNA study in general. The Kip family of New Amsterdam was not the only Kipp family in the 1700s in the United States and more discussion on these early families will also be forthcoming as Edward did spend time looking at these lines.

7.      Next Issue

The next issue is planned for the 1^st of October 2022. Anyone wishing to submit an article/letter to the editor please send to Elizabeth Kipp (kippeeb@rogers.com).